You're my commsHERO
"You're my commsHERO" is a Podcast for commsHERO types, where we speak to people we're inspired by and discuss the comms work they do.
You're my commsHERO
Having a seat at the table - Matt Geer
In this episode, Matt Geer Head of Communications and Marketing at West Kent Housing Association shares some thoughts and reflections on his career in communications. Matt talks more about how to ensure that you as a comms pro have a seat at the top table to support, influence and guide your organisations approach to strategic communications. Matt also shares some of his lived experience of being in the minority across the industry and how that has influenced and inspired his career direction.
Connect with our guest Matt Geer on Linkedin
Hello, and welcome to a new episode of the Your My Comm Era podcast. And I'm your host as Chowdry . Today, my guest is Matt Geer , who's the head of communications and marketing at West Kent Housing Association. Matt's Scott , over a decades experience in communications, marketing and PR with a background in broadcast journalism. And he's gonna share more about this shortly in the main part of the podcast. But for now, Matt, thanks for joining us. It's a pleasure to welcome on the podcast. Be here .
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:So as we do with all our guests, it's a chance to , um, get to know you. So I'm gonna kick off with , um, what's your most played song on your Spotify?
Speaker 2:That's a really interesting question, and I think, to be honest, the most played song is probably Wheels on the Bus because my son uses the Spotify while I use it for him , uh, when he's in the car , uh, or generally just to keep him occupied. But my personal , uh, most played song on my Spotify is a song by Julian Gomez and a singer called Booie called Out of My Life. I really love house music and it's kind of deep soulful house and really good for focusing or running or working out or just , uh, unwinding. So yeah, that's my most played song of 2023.
Speaker 1:Excellent Wheels on the Bus. I love that one. Is there a house version of wheels on the bus? There must be
Speaker 2:A gap in the market. If
Speaker 1:There's not , you're gonna dig that out. Now . There's a Google
Speaker 2:Search . There's definitely an opportunity, therefore , um, DJ loving, producing, loving parents to, to find a niche.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Okay. And then , uh, let's ask you , um, which famous person would you invite to dinner and why?
Speaker 2:I think this has changed a lot in recent years, and I was thinking about it the other day, and I think mine would have to be Nelson Mandela. Um, I think his, his legacy. Yeah . Amazing. Um , you know, the amazing work that he did over decades from the fifties, sixties, onwards to the legacy he has today is is phenomenal. And , um, being a young person Yeah . When , uh, he was freed and , and elected , uh, I would just love to ask him loads of questions about kind of his life, his story, his motivations , uh, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Um , that's amazing. That great choice. Great choice. I hope I get an invite to that one. Um , you know, that , that , that would just be phenomenal to, to be in the company of such a , um, a great man, obviously. And , uh, yeah, that's an interesting choice. I don't think we've had an answer Mandela before, but, yeah, good one. And then finally, Matt, three words to describe you. Uh,
Speaker 2:Energetic, fun, and funny. Although I think, to be completely honest, I think that's ,
Speaker 1:We'll see some
Speaker 2:Of those . I think the funny one might be, I think my , I think my family and , and my wife and my son in particular might , might take on bridge towards the last one, but we'll see. We'll see how the next couple of couple of minutes goes. <laugh>,
Speaker 1:If I get , uh, if I get any complaints from the gears, I'll let you know. <laugh> . Excellent. Well, we'll get into the main crux of the podcast now. So , um, just to give our listeners a quick overview. So in this episode, Matt's gonna share some thoughts and reflections on his , uh, career in communications. And he , he's gonna talk more about how to ensure that , uh, you as a comms professional have a seat at the top table to support, influence, and guide your organization's approach to strategic communications. Matt's also gonna share some of his lived experience , uh, of which there is plenty as well, and lots for us to benefit from. So his lived experience of being , uh, in the minority across the industry and how that's influenced and has inspired his career direction. So it's gonna be a fascinating, enlightening conversation as well. So I'm gonna kick off with the first question, Matt. So , um, tell us more about your career history and background and how that's led you to where you are now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure. So , um, my original training, my original dream , uh, years ago was to be a radio presenter and a radio dj. So I studied broadcast journalism , uh, up in Nottingham at Nottingham Trinity University. Had a great time there for three years, was involved in student media , um, and kind of really kind of sharpening my tools in terms of journalistic skills. Uh, upon coming back to London , uh, where I grew up. Um, I was looking at opportunities to develop, really, in terms of the industry. I wanted to be the next Mr . Jam or Trevor Nelson, but that was , uh, over <laugh> over a couple of years, realized that probably wasn't the path for me. Um, and actually started my career in sort of comms and marketing at a PR agency that specialized in, in broadcast , um, that was about a decade ago now , uh, just over a decade ago now actually. And kind of from that point started to kind of find inlets into , um, the type of comms that I'm most passionate about. And I think to summarize what I, what I'm, what I'm driven by, it's, it's kind of cause causes or cause driven . Um , so even at the time when I was working at that PR agency , uh, over a decade ago , uh, the area and the clients that I was most passionate about working with was people within the charity sector, organizations within the charity sector that were driven by a , a , a cause to help people. Um, and actually that kind of golden thread of my career, if I trace it through from working at PR agencies to then working in charities, to now working in the housing association and, and a few roles in between. There's definitely that kind of common denominator. And I think for me, that's, that's the way I like to, to operate. I'm , I'm quite a purpose driven person, and , uh, reflecting upon my career as , as you do when you, when you have these conversations, it's, it's made me think a lot about what, what gets me outta bed in the morning, what causes do I feel most passionate about communicating about? And for me, it's about helping people. Um, I, I think as well, probably worth reflecting upon it, and I , I did the other day because , um, you know, you , you can't really mention the last sort of decade or so without thinking about the pandemic. Um, for a large chunk of that time, I was working , uh, for a local authority in London. And that brought with it a whole heap of challenges where you had to work with different organizations, different bodies, charities. And I think for me, it it , the other kind of second thing that really drives me in my career is about collaboration and seeing agencies, organizations come together for a common goal is something that I'm, I'm really, really passionate about . Um, so I guess hopefully that's my career in a bit of a nutshell. Um, but I , yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh , some really good stuff there as well. So you've had quite a varied career, but that, like you said, the purpose element and , um, communicating for organizations that do deliver a purpose. And from a , uh, uh, our company resource, we worked with West Kent Housing Association for a number of years, and a fantastic organization that does amazing work as well as to many other housing associations that we work with as well. So it's great to , uh, great to hear that. And that's how we've got to, to know each other as well. So, so Matt, tell us then , having worked across a range of sectors, then , what transferable skills have you acquired along the way?
Speaker 2:Um, so I think the first one that comes across, and it , it is probably not one that is a direct skill that people would put on their CV as such, but it's about resilience. Um, you know, I mentioned covid , uh, I mentioned working in local authority , charity sector, now a housing association. You have to have a decent level of resilience to work within those industries. Um, not least because the audiences, the customers, the residents, the people that you are supporting , um, require you to have that, to serve them appropriately. Um, but also given the nature of the work that we're doing, it can change very, very quickly. And if you're not a resilient person, if you're not able to think on your feet, if you're , um, perhaps , uh, maybe not as , uh, as fluid in terms of adapting plans, that can prove to be quite a challenge. And for me, that's something that I , I pride myself and I, I'd like to think I've encouraged colleagues and teams along the way to kind of develop their own resilience as well , um, both individually and as a team to help achieve the best outcomes for, for the organization or the clients or the customers that they are , they're serving at the time. Um, that, that would be the kind of one, one practical one from a, from a personal perspective. But then I guess from a, from a day-to-Day technical comms perspective, I think it , it kind of relates to that. And it's about planning. Um, and it's about ensuring that although the best lay plans can be overturned change at , at the last minute, it's about understanding on a yearly, on a monthly, on a weekly basis, what content, what comms what com , what campaigns are you keen to drive forward. And I think the reason I'm so passionate about that, and it relates to the kind of wider topic that we're gonna talk about today, is to ensure comms, marketing, comms, pr, comms and engagement are at the top table, are able to influence and, and collaborate with decision makers at any organization. I think it's about being aligned to that organization's goal and then adapting the comms where appropriate to, to, to that. Um, and I think I've, I've been , uh, in , in the earlier parts of my career in , in places or in, in , uh, roles where that maybe was a bit more of a challenge and , um, you had to be slightly more , um, reactive in the way that you delivered your communications activity. And it , it , it kind of left a , a really difficult taste in the mouth of me as a , as a, as an employee or, or as a professional, but also you, I could see that it wasn't getting the best out of the profession for the organization. And I'm really happy and encouraged to see that changing. Now, I think , um, in the last sort of five or six years, there's been a lot more conversations about communications and marketing as a strategic discipline. Uh, and the organizations I've worked in have kind of put the , the kind of partnering element of that at the top table with finance, with hr, with all the other corporate services that you would anticipate. But it is still an ongoing journey. And I think for me, that's where it comes back to planning, ensuring that you are able to have those conversations as early as possible with those relevant decision makers to ensure that comms and business directions, comms and organization vision and mission are aligned. And again, I guess in the bigger picture, it comes back to that, that purpose driven element that we touched on earlier.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no , absolutely. Some really key points there for people to , um, pick out their resilience and planning as those two transferrable skills and both of those on opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of how you actually acquire them as well. 'cause that resilience, there isn't any , um, it's not the stuff you get trained on when you come into the profession planning, yes, you would do that, but like you say , um, it only comes into effect if you've got either yourself as you progress in your career or early on, if you've got a leader that's got the opportunity to be part of the strategic function, which every comms and marketing and PR professional strives for, and it's still not commonplace, it's still a , a struggle that goes on for most. It has improved definitely, but , uh, absolutely. Right. And so , so two good, really good key takeaways , um, on that whole resilience element, not just through things like the pandemic, there's kind of daily challenges that those smaller ones that can knock you off plan , the reactive comms that, that come through that make you have to be a bit more agile and come off plan how the resilience to get back on there. 'cause that consistency is consistency is important in, in your comm . So yeah, some good points there for people to take away then. So Matt , let me ask you then, as someone who leads and has led teams on some challenging projects and topics, then, what are the some top tips then from you on supporting those colleagues to maintain a good work-life balance?
Speaker 2:It's a , it's a daily challenge, I think in, in the professions that we work within. Um, and I, I don't proclaim to have all the answers, but I think for me, it , it , it , it boils down to one , um, factoring in a bit of that, that buffer time that you need for reactive , uh, work. Um, ensuring that in your annual strategies work plans, you know, weekly plans, you've got that little bit of resilience, that sort of 10, 15% across your team's workload or in your individual workload to allow for break glass, something's happened. We need to respond. Um, and that can be as simple in a , in a practical sense of blocking out time in your diary for project time or whatever you want to call it, down to making the , uh, making those points when you work with your strategic leaders to say, actually, just so you know, you know, we , we , we aren't at capacity and it , and it's on purpose to allow for X or y to happen , um, as per our, you know, our , our business risk documents or, or kind of , uh, plans that we work to. But I think on a, on an individual basis and, and, you know, looking after mental health and wellbeing in the workplace is really important and has , has been kind of pushed up the agenda over the last five, six years, which is really, really, really good to see. And particularly with the pandemic that that's kind of heightened. But I think specifically for comms and marketing professionals, it's an area that one I'm really passionate about, but one I've also seen maybe fall, fall away a little bit , um, when things are really busy and people are being really reactive, it can be easy to, in a really tangible sense, miss those lunch breaks, work that extra hour or two after work, you know, miss the school pickup , not have a chance to look after yourself and, and go to the gym or, or , um, exercise or have that kind of , um, that that physical , um, space outside of work to, to burn off some energy. And the , you know, the, the effects can be detrimental on individuals and on teams. So I think in a practical sense, it's, it could be as simple as adding in movement breaks in your diary. It could be , uh, uh, from a, from a line management or a support perspective, changing one of your one-to-ones with your team members each week to be a walking one-to-one. And instead of doing it over teams , um, saying, well, actually let's cut it to half an hour. Let's do it over the phone. You go for a walk, I go for a walk, or if we're in person back in the office, we'll go for a walk together and cover off the things that we need to that aren't, you know, confidential. But it's also that kind of social element as well that can be really easy to miss in a hybrid working , uh, environment where, you know, it's, it's straight to business every time you have a conversation with someone and it , there's very little room for getting to know you, which can be even more challenging when you've got staff entering the workplace who, a dunno anything different because they've studied or graduated during covid or post covid, but also b when people are , uh, are working in, in different organ , you know, different , uh, office layouts or partly from home or whatever. And I think for me it's about finding the best fit for that individual or for yourself. Um, it's not a one size fits all approach , um, but it's having that intentionality to regularly check in with both yourself and also with your team to say, is this still working? Does it make more sense to change the way we have these meetings? Or to factor in that into your diary each week or each month to just give yourself a , a bit of support. But I think, you know, organizations are really, really good at adding in those extra layers of , um, employee assistant programs and mental health first aiders. But I also think as individuals and as leaders, we have a part to play in , in terms of bringing that to life day in and day out in terms of how we operate as a team .
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, absolutely. And it , it is, you know, you look at people's diaries now, pre pandemic, it , the back-to-back meetings was, it wasn't really that commonplace. And , uh, um, in , people will see when they pick up the podcast, they'll see in your bio that you , um, uh, you are a mental health first aid yourself as well, not you're a trained MHFA. So, you know, congratulations on that. And that's where you're coming from a place of , um, knowledge on this perspective. It's not just opinions. Uh , you're trained and you're that representative within West Kent Housing Association as well, which is, which is fantastic to see. So there's some really, really nice points there for people to pick up. And I particularly like the fact, you know, it , it's such a simple concept, the walking meeting, and even if you're not in the office together, you could still do that, but it, I think it'd be quite strange for, for most leaders to suggest that. And also the recipients of that invite to think, oh, is that, is that okay? Or , um, am I still working? And yeah, absolutely. Because if you're not , if you don't need to be screen sharing , then what's the difference? Exactly. Um , uh,
Speaker 2:Some
Speaker 1:Of the, so no , it , it's good, some really nice, and those, those simple tips are the easiest ones to implement are rather than these huge strategies that have to be in place, but , um, they're not quick and easy to, to actually , um, build into your, your day. No , exactly.
Speaker 2:And it's funny , it's funny you say that because some of the most honest and open conversations I've had as either as a, as a line manager or as a an employee of an organization have been having those slightly more informal conversations over a walk or over a coffee that's not , uh, uh, as maybe as structured as a , as a formal meeting. Obviously there are times and , and places and spaces where they need to happen, but actually to have those more informal check-ins , it's really important. Yeah .
Speaker 1:So equality, diversity and inclusion is something discussed a lot within the sector. Uh , and as someone yourself, Matt, from a minority ethnic background, how has the last three years shifted your experience then as a comms professional?
Speaker 2:Um, that's a really interesting question, and it's been definitely been a , a challenging one. Um, I'm sure many of your listeners are aware of , obviously the, the summer of 2020 and, you know, the conversations, the movement, the Black Lives Matter movement that was largely , um, sort of galvanized off the sad murder of , um, tragic murder of George Floyd and, and other murders as well , uh, in the states. Um, I think for me personally, it's, it's advanced a lot of the conversations with allies and with , um, colleagues not from minority backgrounds. Um, but equally I think for staff members and colleagues who are from those backgrounds, it's also enhanced the, the , the conversations that need to be had , um, at all levels of all organization, but also it is put an added , uh, kind of pressure on those individuals depending on the roles they're in to be , um, driving some of those conversations. And the last two organizations I've worked in have been really, really , uh, blessed , uh, to have structures through employee networks , uh, whether that be specifically for BAME staff , um, or other kind of protected characteristics to have those conversations in a structured and, and meaningful way and kind of feed , um, actions back up the chain. But equally, I've got colleagues who work within the, the industry who don't have those structures within their organizations, and it is so much more difficult for those colleagues, sorry, so much more difficult for those colleagues to have , uh, those conversations because they sometimes feel like they're just being the voice for black people or the voice for mixed race people. Uh , and that's , uh, a position that people don't really want to be within sometimes. Um , for me personally, I'm very passionate about driving equality, diversity, and inclusion. So I'm happy and have been , uh, on equality, diversity, inclusion groups , uh, boards to have those conversations in a , in a, in a really meaningful way. But equally, I think it kind of relates back to that previous point about also being mindful of looking after your own mental health and wellbeing. Um , and there can be a , a sense of fatigue that happens where you are having to professionally communicate about these issues and these topics, particularly over 2020 and 2021 , uh, as a comms professional and , and carrying that in an appropriate and , and , um, meaningful way on behalf of the organization. But then also those internal conversations, if you're part of those groups and about how organizations change and, and , um, review the way they approach equality, diversity, inclusion, protected characteristics , um, and then kind of, and on an individual basis, how you as a person from that community interact with the content, both that you are having to shape day in and day out, both internally and externally for the organization you work for, but also what you are seeing on the media. And I know personally that I really struggled , um, particularly in that first summer , uh, with what I was seeing across social media. You know, by nature of the jobs that we do, social media is part and parcel about our day-to-day, our nine to five or , or what have you. But actually then if you yeah , leave work, and particularly if you're not even leaving your house , uh, you're then confronted with some really horrific stories in your spare time and that can really , uh, erode at your resilience. And I think, you know, for me personally, I found a really practical step was about blocking the , the times in which I kind of look at social media or, or kind of pausing my apps at the end of the day because I didn't have the, the head space to engage with that content anymore. Um , not to say I wasn't passionate about the cause , uh, but I also knew that to do my best to drive those conversations forward in a professional basis , um, I needed to give myself a bit of breathing room in the evenings. Um, so for me, I think I , I think the most important thing is about , um, having those difficult conversations though . And I think we've come a long way in the last three years , uh, to doing that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, absolutely. And , um, what advice then would you give to young professionals or students from minority eth minority ethnic backgrounds and considering a career in communications?
Speaker 2:Just do it. Um , I think it , it could be as simple as that. Um, I've, you know, 10, 10 plus years now in , in the industry, and I'm happy to say that , uh, I've seen a real trend in terms of people from my community, people from the , the , the black Caribbean , um, black mixed race communities and other minority communities moving into positions of leadership across comms, marketing, pr. Um, but there is still a long way to go, but I think it starts by having that, that kind of pipeline of new colleagues entering the sector who are willing to push those doors, who are willing to be the only face, or the only one of, only a few faces within organizations driving the profession. Um, for me personally, as someone who works within the public sector , um, and the charity sector , um, I'm really, really keen now within the position of leadership to represent that back , uh, to other colleagues. And I think I remember starting my career thinking, wow, I didn't know if I could get to this level or that level. And actually now I'm in a position where I can have conversations with more junior colleagues within the sector. It's like, well actually you, you can achieve it and there are other people in other positions of responsibility in other organizations that you maybe aren't aware of. Yeah. But I think it boils down to sometimes you can't believe it until you see it. And I think now we're in a position where there is a slightly better representation. Yeah . It's about using that wisely for the next generation of comms professionals.
Speaker 1:Yeah. No , great . That is , and uh , I hope our listeners , um, take heat to that and just, I like the fact that you said just do it , um, and, and just, just go for, go for it, because there's plenty of , um, there's still room for improvement, but there's plenty of great examples of leaders who have built a successful career in this profession of ours,
Speaker 2:Housing and, and , and public services, you know, as , as a , in the country that we're in and , and in this , you know, the , the areas that we in there is a real need for representation because the services that are provided go to diverse customer bases , go to diverse resident bases . If you don't have absolutely leaders within organizations from a , a variety of diverse backgrounds, then you're actually not as , uh, you're in a slightly more difficult position to provide tangible and representative services to your residents and to your customers because it's, it's about having that seat at the table , uh, having those difficult conversations internally to influence the services that people receive.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no , absolutely, totally agree. So then you think, Matt, just to kind of wrap up these questions, are there any pieces of advice that a person of influence , um, in your life has given you that motivates you on a regular basis?
Speaker 2:I always think back to , um, a saying that my parents used to say to me when I was younger. Um , particularly being from a , my parents are from the Caribbean, they're windrush generation , um, children , um, came to the UK in the sixties, my dad from guy , my mom's from St . Vincent. And they instilled in me the idea that being from a black Caribbean background, you had to work twice as hard to achieve , uh, within the uk. Um, I now as an adult and, and as a dad , um, and are seeing, you know, the fruits of, of their kind of drive within me. And I think that advice, although slightly hopefully now less of an issue in a more diverse, commun diverse world we live in, I still kind of carry that mentality of, you know, you , you've gotta be willing to put in the work hands are made for working, you're gonna have to work hard, obviously balancing that with your mental health and wellbeing. But I think for me it's about being willing to roll your sleeves up and to push forward. Um, and that's something that sticks with me to this day. And I think reflecting upon that, and I was , as I was the other day of talking to my dad, it's something that his parents mentioned to him, and I know my mom's parents mentioned to her as well. And I think that is definitely something that, that drives a lot of, you know , that story's probably not untrue for many other people from minority backgrounds who came, remember in the fifties, sixties, seventies to this country. And it's something that I'm sure that their children and grandchildren take forward as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no , brilliant. And , uh, props to , uh, your mom and dad there . So great influences to have , um, in your life. For sure. Then, so we're here, Matt, on the Commer podcast. So it's , it's only right, we ask, which I do of all our guests. So why is com the , why is the Comm Zero community important to you and would you recommend people working in comms and marketing to be part of it?
Speaker 2:I definitely would. Uh, and I think it's important to me because it's about cele celebrating diversity of careers and diversity of voices. I think it can be very easy when you first start your career or even when you are , you are kind of midway through going towards the end of it to be quite , uh, blinkered in the way that you view your career or the view you , uh, you do. And given the , the fast paced nature of what we're doing within comms and comms and marketing comms and pr, you know, there is a sense of just, just get it done, move on, get it done, move on. But actually having the space to take a step back, reflect, celebrate, wins, look across the sector and see what other colleagues are doing, and maybe take some learnings from what they're saying, oh, actually this person over here is doing it differently, or that team over there do strategic campaigning differently or, or do resident involvement or co-production differently. You can actually start to develop a much better sense of, of what makes this profession so great to work within and , and find little tips and tricks. You know, it's a case of, oh , actually I'm gonna , you know, borrow that idea from over here and shape it into the way that we deliver things in , in my team. But you can't do that without having the platform to celebrate the individuals within the sector. And I think that's for me, yeah . Is what Commer does so well.
Speaker 1:No , thank you Matt . And it's really nice that it's delivering that sort of value. That's what we set out to do. And as we celebrate our 10th anniversary in 2024 , um, we hope that it continues along , um, beyond to a 20th anniversary might not necessarily be me and part of that, but , um, I'll, I'll , I'll tend for the celebratory element of it. Um, but No, that's fantastic. It's really nice to hear. And we, it is a platform, the community element, and we encourage people, you know, like-minded comms professionals to connect. So how can people connect with you? Where will they find you?
Speaker 2:Find me on LinkedIn , uh, Matt ge uh , find me on Twitter, Matt Geer pr and find me on Instagram, Matt Under , under Gear , um, are the best ways to reach me.
Speaker 1:Great. We'll share those in the show notes as well. And you'll find this podcast on Spotify, apple or your chosen platform and also on our website com zero.com . You can follow us on Twitter or X. Yes, we are still there as a few people still are. Um , if you do listen on Apple or Spotify , uh, it'd be great if you take the time to leave a rating and review and hit the follow and subscribe button so you can get the new episodes, which , um, we try and get out every two weeks. So Matt, it's been an absolute pleasure, really insightful and lots of great stuff for people to , uh, take away.
Speaker 2:Thanks, Asif . Great to meet you today.